View from the other side

Good grief! I am almost speechless. There were allot of expletives that came to mind while reading this and trying to imagine what the writers are like:

“..Today, the emphasis is shifting and the goal of the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement and the National Child Support Enforcement Association is to turn the taxpayer funded child support enforcement program into a “father friendly agency.”

While the public agency has long been accused of being “father friendly” it is going to become involved in issues that it believes are in the “best interests of the children”.

We recommend that you read the two following articles that appeared in The Child Support Quarterly – a publication of the National Child Support Enforcement Association…”

Re: Please help!

you need to file for joint custody now….and accept nothing different…

for the rights of civil violations…your child or children need to know you equally now as their mother……and stand for that…

if you want different the you will be held accountable for paying the every-other weekend status our government enforces…

Please help!

My question:

I have a 5yrs old son that live with his mom but there’s no court order for the custody yet…that means that I have the same right to be with my son…My ex is asking to sign an affidavit stating that I promise to return my son to her at the end of the summer vacation….Is this letter affect my custody right in the future if she show it up on court?

Until we stand against the system

Until the parents of children in this country stand for not letting the system in our lives…and the system dysfunctionally deleting one or the other parents for a monitary value…due to that the system will find the one parent will have the child or chiidren for just one more overnight than the other…. that constitutes support…until we as parents can agree to believe that we “both” are the best interest.

and one or the other not letting the “greed” of a monetary value to visitation disfunctionalize our children….and that our children’s rights for life, liberty,and the pursuit of seeing and knowing both parents equal and that all divorces should lead to joint custody when neither parent has done something detremental, abusive, or isn’t not found neglectful…and the psyc of the system to enforce that when divorce hits and one of the parents leave the county of HOME RULE

…where the child has been the longest… to instill roots ….and we as a nation are putting up with our country telling a cuban boys father what he can or cannot do with his child….imagine that…..and we want what our own government wont give to a foreign father… guess after three years of joint custody and found not the best interest…i will become a blind man in a blind country

Not sure about the Canadian laws

Not sure about the Canadian laws, but in the states I would suggest that he keep a tape recorder or video camera hidden in the house and on until he catches her instigating some form of violence on him or the child. Then take the child and leave after filing for a protective order and divorce (if he was married to the mother). Or stay in the house and have her served with the order keeping her away from the house.

He will have to have good proof that she is the violent one, however, before he does this.

Nobody will believe him otherwise. The courts are still under the impression that 95% of all domestic violence is propagated by the man, when the real number is more like 55% instigated by the woman. This evidence will also be useful in disputing the inevitable false accusations a woman like that will use to gain advantage.

Check out the FRTC website at There is a PAS Information Archive there with over 30 articles on Parental Alienation Syndrome. One of those articles discusses Malicious Mother Syndrome. This woman sounds like a good candidate for that.

Good luck!


looking for some help

Hi, canada here hoping someone else here is too, I have currently been with my b/f for the past yr and a half (known him 4 11yrs) he left his daughters mother just before we got together she thinks because of me, just kind a push for him.

She threats, harasses me and the such, just before xmas 99 she said he leaves me or loses his daughter (not even a ? there who he chooses, not a prob for me) well he had no other choice but to move back there to be with his daughter, our money situation was very tight, starting to get better, the conditions that were set by him, were they r not together, and he is only there for his daughter.

that did not last long, she immediately begin the we’re getting married, having sex calls again to me, we have not ended our realtionship (maybe not wise but) we keep it a secret and have to hide on the weekends when he comes up, she drives an hour to look for him, with the little girl, and drives around looking for him, yet she knows where he is, she has always been violent but lately the cops have been called from a neighbor of hers, everyone assumed it was him being abusive (but i am sure someone knows how that is) right now i am in the process of moving in 3 weeks so a little tight for money and no spae at the time for his daugther, but we would like some advice on how we can get her, we both work, r getting a 2brdm house aug 1st, i am just afarid of what his ex might do to either him, his little girl or me. She is in her own reality and is beginning to lose control even more, Any advice from my very long message is very much appreciated.

Thanks if you made it this far.

No Justice, No Peace

Welcome to the Club!

Sadly enough you are on your own. These clubs are mostly a “Vent your frustration” place, although if you are lucky and find some similar situation that someone has gone through, you may get some decent advice. I am not putting down the clubs, I am just letting you know that it will be almost impossible to find a way to rush your case and save money or find financial help.

The truth is it’s a bumpy ride, your lawyer is the pilot, and you have no idea how to land the plane if he passes out.

The real solutions to many of the injustices suffered by Fathers can only be achieved by uniting and fighting (peacefully) for our rights and our children’s rights. Of course, if you try anything like this you will just be discouraged.

It is a shame to see how women get together for their rights, african-americans join together, mothers join for gun safety, and even Cubans for a little Cuban boy, but Fathers can’t even begin to get it together for their own Children.

I see everyone fighting for every little reason except for their most important little reasons, their children.

If you are just starting your case, the best thing you can do is be strong for your children, be patient because it WILL be frustrating, and always have a positive and loving attitude around your children. Do Not bring up your hate for the woman and the situation out to them so they can see that your world revolves around them and that they are all that matters.

New Member Here

Hi My name is Matt. I have 3 kids. Girl(9), Boy(8) I have full custody of those two. I have a 4.5 yr old daughter with a woman I was never married too. I live in La. And she lives in Ct with her mother. I am trying to prepare to take her to court. I have to take her to court in Ct. At this point she refuses to let me see my daughter. She is just being vindictive. I am married and my wife is a great stepmom. But my daughters mother hates her. She has told me that as long as I am in any kind of relationship with my wife then I will never see my daughter again.

I cannot afford a lawyer at this time. I needed about $500-$600 to pay for his services. I even had to take a cash advance from company (very fast service, btw!). Now I am trying to get legal aid in Ct to help me. If anyone is wondering I did sign my daughter’s bc. At this time all I have is phone number to call my daughter at. The mother has moved and will not give me the address. I have asked her for an address to send her child support. She tells me not to worry about that. That she has contacted the state of Ct and they will contact me. Well after a while and they had not contacted me,my wife and I found that funny.

So we called social services in Ct and they told me that they do not have a thing on me and that they cannot request child support unless she asks for their help. He also told me that since there are no court orders for child support and she has not requested their help to get it,that I am under no legal obligation to pay her child support. Well I have no problems with paying child support to her. All I want is joint custody or at least visitation with my child. I would like any advice/information/help that anyone can give me.

PS You can email if you want too.

Online research works best if you have legal training

The research works by retrieving cases in response to specific legal questions. Ask the question and you get a wrong answer. What many people do not know is that many lawyers simply cannot research online adequately. Thats why lots of law firms still have law libraries even tho the space those libraries occupy can be costly.

Many courthouses have law libraries which are open to the public. Any reference material that is online will also be available in the library. The only thing you will not be able to get are unpublished opinions by judges.

Rather than read casebooks, try to review articles by legal commentators. AmJur (American Jurisprudence), Colliers, Matthew Bender, Corpus Juris are all multi-volume sets which offer commentary on various issues in the fields of law. The down side is that these reference books discuss the law in general terms and footnote citations to applicable for specific states so you still have to go back to the legal opinions for your particular state.

In addition, some bar associations publish periodical(s) on a semi-regular discussing trends in that state’s law. Again, the law librarian can help you identify that periodical and you can ascertain if it publishes any articles that may be of interest to your case.

Personally, I believe that a lay person should read the commentators’ review of the general state of the law BEFORE delving into statutes and cases – it helps you understand what you should look for in general terms before you attempt to answer specific questions. For example, if you want the state of the law in your state on move away issues, go to Am Jur first and read up on the general trends. That way, you have a general understanding of the law. Then check the footnotes for citations to your state’s law and try to find the statutes (if there are laws on the books) and the cases dealing with the issue. If there are neither, you can still argue the general trend of the law when you make your request.

Finally, if you are proceeding pro se, you should purchase or be familiar with the local rules of civil procedure. You can’t even begin to play the game if you do not know the rules the court is playing by. Remember, law is not always fair. Know the rules and don’t rely upon your own sense of fairness – if you do, you will live to regret it.

Pro se against moveaway

I assume the ex has filed the papers.

This would depend upon your local rules of civil procedure. If your local courthouse has a law library the librarian could help you find the rules on failure to prosecute.

However, normally, if you do not follow thru on pleadings you have filed, the other side can ask the court to throw the matter out. The caveat is that judges can be remarkably lenient with pro se litigants, especially if they feel that the pro se is at an intellectual disadvantage.

My advice – go ahead and file the papers. The worst the judge can say is no. However, you can probably ask the judge at the same time to order the ex to file the requisite papers under threat of dismissal.

Good luck.

I have been separated from

I have been separated from (for lack of a better word) my wife for a year and a half. For the last year, I have been trying to get a divorce. I have had a difficult time in doing so. I have done everything possible to end things amicably and as civil as possible. In turn, I have received nothing but pain and suffering. I supported her and my kids outside of the court.But she decided to take me to court, and had me pay for support and arrears. Since this time, I have not seen my daughters in seven months.

She continues to make allegations concerning me and my kids. Each time it was investigated, it was unfounded. My kids have stated that they want to see me but the court has given me the run around.I have gone through all of my savings in attorney fees. If anyone can help me with any advise or referrals I’d be grateful.


Think nationally, act locally…

Creating local Court Watch groups may be a good idea.

It could be available for dads who fear misrepresentation in the courtroom. Court Watchers consist of groups of men and women, dressed in business suits, who sit quietly in the back of the courtroom and take notes. The purpose is to let the court personnel and others present know that they are being watched, and that they will be held accountable for their behavior and decisions. The presence of a large and highly visible group of people is very effective. It also provides a source of support and empowerment for those who request it.

We need more information about Court Watches, especially about their effectiveness in Family Law matters.

In practice, a local organization would be needed for volunteering, assistance, and referrals…

Please post your comments. Are judges really influenced by Court Watchers?


PS: if you want to upload some forms for the above purpose, please do so to help fellow club members. If you need technical assistance, contact the moderator.

Injustice in Family Court Petition

I am a stepmom to four wonderful children. I have been helping my husband raise his children on a daily basis for the past six years. As a ‘blended family’ we were blessed in that we all got along great, had very few problems and we all developed a strong emotional bond. My stepchildren’s mother visited her children occasionally, when it was convenient for her.

She CHOSE not to pursue an ‘intimate relationship’ with them. Over the years, I helped my husband provide his children with love, support, stability and acceptance, after their mother walked out on them. I never placed demands on my stepchildren, never talked badly about their mother, nor did I DEMAND loyalty. I took things ‘one day at a time’ and did my best to be there for them. In addition, I have a bio daughter that my husband and I are raising. My daughter loves her stepdad and stepsiblings as if they are her own blood. My daughter’s bio father chose to disappear after I requested child support several years after our divorce.

He left the country, never to be heard from again. I have been through a lot in 45 years, losing my mother to cancer, my father to emphysema, and my younger brother to AIDS. However, I can honestly say that one of THE most painful times in my life, was when my ‘blended family’ was ripped apart by an angry ex-wife and an unjust legal system. There were horrible lies said about me by my husband’s ex-wife, her family and even my husband’s own mother. I have started this petition so that I can hopefully find some meaning and purpose in all of this. I wish I did not care as much as I do.

I wish I did not care about my husband’s feelings, my husband’s children, the injustice that so many father’s are going through. I wish I did not care, because then maybe I would have some peace… However, such is not the case so because I care, I want to make a difference. I want to help others who are going through what my family and I are going through. I hope you will take the time to read and sign my petition. It has helped me to see that there ARE people who have compassion and empathy for those that are suffering. Anyway, Happy Mother’s Day to all mother’s AND father’s who are raising their children with love, tolerance and peace… May God’s blessings be with you.

I have been a part of the fathers’ rights movement

I have been a part of the fathers’ rights movement for over a decade. It is the only thing I do, since I live on Social Security Disability. In the early days, we did a lot of protest. Even picketed the home of the county prosecutor, for not enforcing Missouri’s visitation denial law (R.S. Mo. 565.156 (5)). His wife turned a water home on us. I will try to find the pictures, and get them scanned in for here. From my experience, picketing achieves little to nothing, except to make people think we’re just a bunch of whining dads.

To achieve change, it has to be done in the courtroom, and with the right knowledge, that can be done. No matter how bias the judge. How do I know this? Because the National Organization for Women has complained about our methods, saying that it scares too many judges into giving fathers custody. According to them, even abusive fathers. The usually political rhetoric.

Preparing properly for a case is only part of what needs to be done. You needs people, who are not involved int he case, to be there as “Court Watchers.” These are people who sit up front in the public area, and take notes. They make sure that the judge sees them taking notes. If asked, they identify themselves as court watchers. The father does not introduce them, or even acknowledges them, but they do sit behind the father. A judge cannot even order them to leave.

These person make judges very nervous about making decisions that do not take into account all the evidence in a case. And if he does anyway, then you have five witnesses to it, that can testify against the judge, getting him/her removed from the bench, and the decision overturned.

We here at NCFC have a court watch form that is a part of our manual, along with instructions on how to use it.

If you want to pick something, when denied access to the children, picket the home of the mother, or her job. That has been effective. Especially when they work at the post office, where you can picket right at the front door.

Put up her area, with a picture of the children, and the phrase, “Have you seen my children, I wish I could. Their Dad.”

I have been doing it for 11 years

I have been doing it for 11 years. The problem is fathers don’t seek help until their ass is in a vise, not at the beginning when it would have been much easier to teach them what they needed to know.

As far as organizing, I well remember my early days in 1989, trying to organize groups in Missouri and Kansas. But, I have to warn you, a father who currently has an active case should not lead a father’s group. The reason is that when a father wants to talk to you about their case, you end up talking about your own case, and not helping him. Plus, there is all the body bags you will be seeing.

In my 11 years, I have attended many funerals of fathers who gave up and committed suicide. These are fathers who have already reached their limits by the time they contact us. Spotting it can be a problem, and if you see that the father is severely depressed, you try to get them help. But as men, we tend to reject the idea of going to a shrink.

Even worse, I have held up too many fathers, as we attended the funeral of their children, who were killed by the mother. This happens in cases where the father is going to win custody, and the mother simply will not give up the kids. Statistically, mothers are the cause of 55% of all fatal child abuse.

I even tried to commit suicide, after a case in 1996, where a father I had been trying to get into counseling, shot himself in the head, but the bullet went through his head, striking and killing his daughter, also. It was an easy case to get over.

So, consider long and hard about starting a group. Far better leaders of fathers groups are women. And men are more open to them.

As far as your law is concerned

As far as your law is concerned, you would have to speak with board members more familiar with it. But, the fact is, court decisions have changed more laws, then all the sobbing dads giving emotional testimony before congressional or state legislative committees. The problem is learning what all you can to to manipulated the system in your favor. The law you addressed, I imagine was originally meant to help fathers trying to get custody. Fathers doing the exact same thing she is doing. There are always drawbacks to the best laid plans, even when you are talking about legislative changes. What can be created to help protect one person, can be manipulated by the other. Muranda Rights is a good example. There was a reasonable reason, mostly having to do with Southern Georgia County Sheriffs, for the requirement to read the rights to a suspect. But, there are those who then take advantage of it.

More then anything, for this reason why it is so important to educate fathers on how to fight for their rights and better work with their attorneys. It needes to be a uniform education, nation wide, so that in all corners of this country, fathers with favorable rulings can then take that case law to the state house, or congress, to show that a change needs to be brought about to curtail to high legal costs fighting for one’s rights.

That what I do, with NCFC. It is what I have done for 11 years. Today I have been working since 10 am, and it is now coming up to 1 am. I have been working on revisions on our manual, to make it even easier to understand, and navigate on a computer. I’ve converted it into a PDF file.

In that time, I have also taken several calls, and chatted with fathers through Yahoo Messager, MS Message, and ICQ. And no, I’m mostly a workaholic. But, that is what it takes to bring about change, and to help as many fathers as possible. Fortunately I am on social Security Disability, so I don’t to work a job. But, the material is helping no one sitting in my computer, so you should conder becoming a member of NCFC. Let’s see what we can do to help you. You can call me at (913) 385-3237 or 1-800-SEE-DADS. Though the 800 line isn’t working right now. It’s been ringing in California, but is being transferred to me, and someone screwed up the transfer. We waiting for them to fix it.

Best time to get me is after 4 PM, east coust time.

I had the same problem

I had the same problem when I sought to have relief for myself and kids from the emotional abuse my ex was deliberately causing. The court-master was a woman and my ex denied the abuse and LIED putting me as the abuser. The master immediately honored my wife’s allegations without even allowing me to respond. As I began demanding to have my rights of defending the LIES the master instructed 2 deputies to stand behind me while she interviewed me for information to my personal Bank accounts, employer,wage earnings.

Instead of receiving the urgently needed relief from my ex, I was PROSECUTED as being the abuser and ordered to stay away from my home and children, the master even ordered to have my wages garnished. The masters last words to me were
“YOU don’t want to go to jail from her”. The Idea of watchers may have prevented this CRUEL, Deliberate victimization of myself and kids.

The order effectively destroyed our families living quality leaving my kids out on the street and emotionally traumatized them and myself because even though I was able and capable of helping them I would be arrested for violating this corrupted order. This master is still running the family system and her actions are disgustingly honored by her peers. WE NEED TO REMOVE JUDGES THAT PARTICIPATE IN THIS TYPE OF JUDICIAL ABUSE, if we cant get them to HONOR the laws we need to CHANGE THE JUDGES!!

Demand one week on, one week off

Demand one week on, one week off…and if your relm is able to take the children to school during the schooling period…then ask for joint custody and you to have them from Sunday to Wednesday or Wednesday to Friday and every other weekend…. and stick to it and show this system of government that we have in place that deadbeat fathers and mothers will now step to the plate and take what the courts have taken from us for a monitary value to the counties that have the degree of divorce in place….

and that is the degree of divorce was not a contract that was able to break.. and at no fault…the children of this countries enable rights are to see their father and mother equally and their father’s and mother’s side of their families equally, and their rights for life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness to enjoy the flourish ness of something that neither parent has done anything detrimental,abusive, or is not found in neglect for …and the system of government that we have in place to enact all divorces is joint custody and if either parent decides to leave the county of HOME RULE…(where the child has lived the longest)…

forfeits the right for joint or shared custodial responsibility…or equal established environment….status quo….no mas…no system…just parent who care…for not the monetary value of GREED that our system has in place.